{"id":3376,"date":"2016-10-15T13:10:43","date_gmt":"2016-10-15T10:10:43","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/?p=3376"},"modified":"2020-02-18T10:47:48","modified_gmt":"2020-02-18T07:47:48","slug":"dialogul-lui-platon-despre-tva","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/2016\/10\/15\/dialogul-lui-platon-despre-tva\/","title":{"rendered":"Platon. Dialoguri. Despre TVA"},"content":{"rendered":"<p align=\"right\"><font face=\"Arial\">Anton Kovacs \u2013 <\/font><a href=\"http:\/\/www.infokam.ro\"><font face=\"Arial\">www.infokam.ro<\/font><\/a><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><a href=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/Plato-and-socrates-590x433.jpg\"><font face=\"Arial\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"600\" height=\"439\" title=\"Plato-and-socrates-590x433\" style=\"display: inline; background-image: none;\" alt=\"Plato-and-socrates-590x433\" src=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/Plato-and-socrates-590x433_thumb.jpg\" border=\"0\"><\/font><\/a><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><strong>EUTRIFON:<\/strong> Greu de \u00een\u021beles aceaste taxe, \u00een acela\u0219i timp numite \u015fi Iheomise (ur\u00e2te de divinitate) \u015fi theophile (iubite de divinitate), minunate prieten! <\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">S\u0103 lu\u0103m de exemplu TVA-ul. Dac\u0103 produsul pleac\u0103 cu pre\u021b de 10 drahme (fara TVA) de la f\u0103urar, el este v\u00e2ndut la 12 plus marja, adica undeva la 15 drahme c\u0103tre distribuitor. Ce face distribuitorul? Aplica TVA la 12 (adica TVA la 10 + TVA la TVA), mai adaug\u0103 marja si vinde la retailer. Bine\u00eenteles c\u0103 distribuitorul deduce ceva mai mult TVA dec\u00e2t produc\u0103torul, nu? Schema se repet\u0103 la retailer \u0219i asa produsul ajunge sa fie \u00een pia\u021ba cu ~30 drahme, din care TVA la chestia asta e ~5 drahme. Dar, \u00een numele zeilor, dac\u0103 e taxa pe valoarea AD\u0102UGAT\u0102, nu ar trebui ca de fiecare dat\u0103 s\u0103 se taxeze marja (adica ce adauga urmatorul \u00een lantul trofic peste pretul de achizitie)?<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><a href=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/worker.jpg\"><font face=\"Arial\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"600\" height=\"470\" title=\"worker\" style=\"display: inline; background-image: none;\" alt=\"worker\" src=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/worker_thumb.jpg\" border=\"0\"><\/font><\/a><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><strong>SOCRATE:<\/strong> Gre\u0219e\u0219ti, prietene Eutifron! TVA-ul este taxa fix\u0103 pe pre\u021b pe care o pl\u0103te\u0219te cel care cump\u0103r\u0103.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Imagineaz\u0103-\u021bi dragul meu prieten urm\u0103torul ra\u021bionament:<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Presupunem c\u0103 f\u0103urarul nu cheltuie nimic dar produce de 10 drahme (deci valoarea adaugat\u0103 este de 10 drahme). Produsul pleac\u0103 de la produc\u0103tor cu 10+2 TVA, ajunge la distribuitor care deduce (prime\u0219te \u00eenapoi, sub o forma sau alta) 2 TVA aferent achizi\u021biei, adaug\u0103 5 drahme adausul s\u0103u, deci produsul cost\u0103 p\u00e2n\u0103 acum 10+5=15+TVA=18 drahme, detailistul pl\u0103te\u0219te 18 dar deduce 3, adaug\u0103 10 adausul comercial, pre\u021bul f\u0103r\u0103 TVA devine 15+10 = 25 deci pre\u021bul la cump\u0103r\u0103torul final devine 25+TVA, adic\u0103 30 drahme.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">In final avem adaus 10 la produc\u0103tor+5 la distribuitor+10 la retailer = 25 \u0219i<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">TVA 2 la producator +(-2+3 la distribuitor) + (-3+5 la retailer) = 5<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Facem verificarea: 25 adaus x 0.20= 5 TVA<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Concluzia este c\u0103 TVA-ul este perceput numai pentru valoarea ad\u0103ugat\u0103.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><strong>EUTRIFON:<\/strong> O fi bun Socrate calculul prin care \u00eencerci s\u0103 demonstrezi c\u0103 TVA este o tax\u0103 \u201ccinstit\u0103\u201d, dar pleac\u0103 de la o premiz\u0103 total gre\u0219ita: \u201cpresupunem c\u0103 f\u0103urarul nu cheltuie nimic dar produce de 10 drahme\u201d. Dac\u0103 f\u0103urarul cheltuie 8 drahme pentru a produce ceva pe care \u00eel vinde apoi cu 10 drahme + TVA (ceea ce pare mult mai realist), tot calculul se d\u0103 peste cap, \u00eentruc\u00e2t la final TVA r\u0103m\u00e2ne 5 drahme, dar ar trebui s\u0103 fie (2 + 5 + 10) * 0.2 = 3.4. A\u0219a c\u0103 poate principiile de baz\u0103 ale TVA-ului le-or fi g\u00e2ndit zeii \u00eentr-un fel, dar cum se aplic\u0103 \u00een cetate este cu totul si cu totul altceva\u2026<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><strong>SOCRATE:<\/strong> Pe Zeus, Eutifron! Premiza nu este gresit\u0103, doar c\u0103 am pornit de la un anumit punct al lan\u021bului pentru a nu lungi prea mult exemplul.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Dar putem porni \u201cde mai jos\u201d:<a href=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/matt.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"271\" height=\"329\" title=\"matt\" align=\"right\" style=\"margin: 0px 0px 0px 15px; float: right; display: inline; background-image: none;\" alt=\"matt\" src=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/matt_thumb.jpg\" border=\"0\"><\/a><\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Deci, cump\u0103r o foaie de pergament cu o drahm\u0103, TVA=0.2, mai cump\u0103r un stylus cu o drahm\u0103 + TVA 0.2, scriu pe foaia de pergament toat\u0103 povestea cu TVA-ul, plata scribului este de o drahm\u0103 + 0.2 TVA, consider c\u0103 munca cu explica\u021biile (valoare ad\u0103ugat\u0103) merit\u0103 7 drahme, deci voi vinde pergamentul scris sub form\u0103 de lectie de contabilitate cu 10 drahme+2 TVA.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Ajungem la 7 drahme valoare ad\u0103ugat\u0103 \u0219i<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">2 \u2013 0.2 TVA-ul pergamentului &#8211; 0.2 TVA-ul stylusului &#8211; 0.2 TVA-ul scribului = 1.4 TVA<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Facem verificarea:<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">7 valoare ad\u0103ugat\u0103 x 0.2 cota TVA = 1.4.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Q.E.D., cum vor spune latinii peste 1000 de ani.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Putem merge \u0219i mai \u00een jos \u201cpe lan\u021b\u201d prea nedumeritul meu prieten, astfel putem spune c\u0103 pentru fabricarea pergamentului s-au cump\u0103rat piei de miel de o anumita valoare \u00eenso\u021bit\u0103 de un anumit TVA care se deduce.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">\u0218i merg\u00e2nd \u0219i mai jos, am cump\u0103rat oi cu o anumit\u0103 valoare \u00eenso\u021bit\u0103 de un anumit TVA care se deduce, am \u00eenmul\u021bit oile din care se vor na\u0219te mieii din pielea c\u0103rora voi fabrica pergamentul \u0219i am ad\u0103pat mieii cu ap\u0103 cumparat\u0103 cu un anumit pre\u021b \u00eenso\u021bit de TVA care se deduce.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Putem merge astfel p\u00e2n\u0103 la facerea lumii unde \u201cLa \u00eenceput a fost cuv\u00e2ntul\u201d.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><a href=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/puterea-cuvintelor3.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"600\" height=\"277\" title=\"puterea-cuvintelor3\" style=\"display: inline; background-image: none;\" alt=\"puterea-cuvintelor3\" src=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/puterea-cuvintelor3_thumb.png\" border=\"0\"><\/a><\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><strong>EUTRIFON:<\/strong> De ce iubite maestre taxa pe valoarea AD\u0102UGATA se aplic\u0103 pre\u021bului \u00eentreg?\u201d<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><strong>SOCRATE:<\/strong> Pentru ca pre\u021bul \u00eentreg este compus din mai multe valori ad\u0103ugate mai mititele, fiecare din ele purt\u0103toare de TVA, dragul meu prieten.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><strong>EUTRIFON:<\/strong> De ce taxa pe valoarea ad\u0103ugat\u0103 este pl\u0103tit\u0103 exclusiv de catre cei care nu adaug\u0103 nici un fel de valoare produsului, pe c\u00e2nd cei care adaug\u0103 valoarea \u00ee\u0219i deduc TVA-ul pentru achizi\u021biile f\u0103cute ?\u201d<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><strong>SOCRATE:<\/strong> Deoarece TVA-ul este un impozit care taxeaza consumul, care \u00een exces este \u0219i el d\u0103un\u0103tor (\u0219i un exemplu ar fi chiar criza prin care trece acum cetatea). Pe de alt\u0103 parte nu-i vom taxa pentru consum pe cei care produc ceva, adic\u0103 adaug\u0103 valoare, deoarece ace\u0219tia<\/font><font face=\"Arial\"> cump\u0103r\u0103&nbsp; doar pentru a putea aduce prin munca lor un aport mai mic sau mai mare la binele tuturor, munc\u0103 (valoare adaugat\u0103) care la randul ei este si ea taxat\u0103 cu TVA.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><strong>EUTRIFON:<\/strong> Dar, cei vizati de Taxa pe Valoare Adaugata o paseaz\u0103, dac\u0103 \u00eemi permi\u021bi aceast\u0103 expresie vulgar\u0103, mai departe, lucru care ar fi trebuit sa fie evident si zeilor care au impus aceasta tax\u0103.<\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><strong>SOCRATE:<\/strong> O \u201cpaseaz\u0103\u201d mai departe, a\u0219a cum spui, pentru c\u0103, a\u0219a cum am spus mai sus, nu ei sunt cei care trebuie taxa\u021bi ci doar cei care consum\u0103 sunt astfel pedepsi\u021bi. Consumatorul final nu mai \u201cpaseaza\u201d nim\u0103nui TVA-ul, cel pu\u021bin \u00een mod direct. <\/font><font face=\"Arial\">De fapt \u00eel paseaza, indirect, dar \u00een alte coordonate de timp \u0219i spa\u021biu, prin calitatea sa de produc\u0103tor de valoare adaugat\u0103, la un moment dat.&nbsp; \u0218i astfel<\/font><font face=\"Arial\">, minunate Eutrifon, dac\u0103 extindem ra\u021bionamentul destul de departe, vom ajunge la esen\u021ba cea mai pur\u0103 a economiei, marea tain\u0103 pe care zeii au f\u0103cut-o \u00een\u021beleas\u0103 doar pentru foarte pu\u021bini muritori: <\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"><a href=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/Clipboard01-2.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"600\" height=\"185\" title=\"Clipboard01\" style=\"display: inline; background-image: none;\" alt=\"Clipboard01\" src=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/Clipboard01_thumb-2.jpg\" border=\"0\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\">Sau, folosind limbajul pe care \u00eel vor folosi discipolii lui Arguriologus, cei care c\u00e2ndva se vor numi contabili, <\/font><\/p>\n<h1 align=\"center\">\u00eentotdeauna debitul este egal cu creditul.<\/h1>\n<p align=\"justify\"><em><font face=\"Arial\"><a href=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/balance-weighing-scales-300x243.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"308\" height=\"250\" title=\"balance-weighing-scales-300x243\" style=\"border: 0px currentcolor; border-image: none; margin-right: auto; margin-left: auto; float: none; display: block; background-image: none;\" alt=\"balance-weighing-scales-300x243\" src=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/balance-weighing-scales-300x243_thumb.jpg\" border=\"0\"><\/a><\/font><\/em><\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"><em><font face=\"Arial\"><br \/><\/font><\/em><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><font face=\"Arial\"><\/font><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><\/p>\n<table width=\"600\" border=\"0\" cellspacing=\"0\" cellpadding=\"2\">\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td width=\"300\" valign=\"top\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.paypal.com\/cgi-bin\/webscr?cmd=_donations&amp;business=office%40infokam.ro&amp;currency_code=EUR&amp;source=url\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"244\" height=\"89\" title=\"paypal7\" style=\"border: 0px currentcolor; border-image: none; display: inline; background-image: none;\" alt=\"paypal7\" src=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/paypal7.jpg\" border=\"0\"><\/a><\/td>\n<td width=\"300\" valign=\"top\"><a href=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Revolut_logo_thumb-1.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"244\" height=\"98\" title=\"Revolut_logo_thumb\" style=\"border: 0px currentcolor; border-image: none; display: inline; background-image: none;\" alt=\"Revolut_logo_thumb\" src=\"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Revolut_logo_thumb_thumb.jpg\" border=\"0\"><\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<p align=\"justify\"><\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"><em><font face=\"Arial\"><br \/><\/font><\/em><\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"><em><font face=\"Arial\"><br \/><\/font><\/em><\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"><em><font face=\"Arial\"><br \/><\/font><\/em><\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Anton Kovacs \u2013 www.infokam.ro EUTRIFON: Greu de \u00een\u021beles aceaste taxe, \u00een acela\u0219i timp numite \u015fi Iheomise (ur\u00e2te de divinitate) \u015fi theophile (iubite de divinitate), minunate prieten! S\u0103 lu\u0103m de exemplu TVA-ul. Dac\u0103 produsul pleac\u0103 cu pre\u021b de 10 drahme (fara TVA) de la f\u0103urar, el este v\u00e2ndut la 12 plus marja, adica undeva la 15 [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[7,10],"class_list":["post-3376","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-contabilitate","tag-contabilitate-2","tag-tva"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3376","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3376"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3376\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5722,"href":"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3376\/revisions\/5722"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3376"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3376"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/infokam.eu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3376"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}